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N Madhavan View Drop Down
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  Quote N Madhavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: If One Remedy Fails
    Posted: 30 Oct. 09 at 10:41
Originally posted by Humble

This is engineering something diffferently into a a method which had evolved naturally from within - until things appear logical and seem to fit. This is how conventional medicine develops and gets renewed again and again.
Be it that way.


Couldn't agree more!
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oriam View Drop Down
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  Quote oriam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct. 09 at 12:07

Humble,

Your correction on my correction is absolutely right!!
And it seems I misinterpreted your post, (langage problem), sorry.

mario
Mario Guilbault
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Humble View Drop Down
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  Quote Humble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct. 09 at 12:29
Smile
Dear Mario,
I wasn't aware that the quote has been repeated in Vol 2.
Thanks for pointing my nose on it. LOL
Siegfried
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  Quote Piyush Kumar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct. 09 at 13:01
i want to know in interest of getting clear concept of this issue......what were the thing which were not clear in organon and what is more clear by using sankaran sensation method....i want clear cut answer...because i cant experiment with my patients?
Dr Piyush
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  Quote Piyush Kumar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct. 09 at 13:31
what about remedy which have few symptoms but which are verified always in practice....how will you use them? then there are so many symptoms of each polychrest remedy but few symptoms are very much unknown in short materia medica or repertory...what to do with them.....
 
were all the physicians prior to sankaran method wrong......can you deal with all kind of cases with sankaran method...
 
Pleasre dont take it personally anybody...just answer with examples so that CLARITY PREVAILS....
 
In Practice we cant experiment and try methods on the cost of health of patients...and metod should be comprehensible and repeatable.....
Dr Piyush
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  Quote Brisbanehomoeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct. 09 at 16:54
Sankaran does not say prior physicians were wrong - quite the contrary, he has built upon their work. He uses the organon not only in practice but in teaching.  
 
I also think that you need to be flexible in clinic, be able to take a case any way that the patient gives it, not try to force them to speak in a particular way. I use Sensation in almost every case I see now, but also refer to the repertory during case taking, to the materia medicas. Using gesture to follow the important parts of the case is useful whether you are using straight repertory or using groups to find the remedy.
David Kempson
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  Quote Piyush Kumar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov. 09 at 12:53
i does not find sankaran method good one ....you know why?  because its not correct..and its prejudiced approach and it can not be applied in every case....
Dr Piyush
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  Quote sajjadakram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov. 09 at 19:00
He is a genius person watch this;
 
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  Quote Piyush Kumar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov. 09 at 23:49
my question is the applicability of method to different type of cases....and how many cases one can benefit using the method....
 
SANKARAN IS GENIUS....Smile
 
but can you apply his methods in cholera...in muscular dystrophy...in diarrhoea...etc..day to day problems...
in gangrenes...etc
Dr Piyush
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  Quote sajjadakram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov. 09 at 01:20
According to my knowledge it is more suitable for chronic duseases when physician and  the patient has sufficient time.
For acute cases like diarrhoea,fever' etc,  Dr seghal's RH method is simple,accurate and easy to use.
sajjad.
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  Quote Brisbanehomoeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov. 09 at 16:50
I use the method for acute disease as well as chronic. It is wonderful for injuries and shock, allowing precision even under pressure to prescribe quickly. Using the method this way takes some practice with it however - like any new skill at first, it takes longer to use it. Eventually it becomes easier, and faster to practice. I use the method over the phone as well (to a lesser degree) for acutes as the language is so strong and evocative.
 
Of course my experience here in Australia is different to those people practicing in rural India or Africa for example. It is not a day to day occurance for me to see Cholera or Muscular Dystrophy. I see many more cases of behaviorly disturbed children, asthma, pneumonia, whooping cough, anxiety disorders, depression, migraine, phobic disorders, bioplar disorder, insomnia, hayfever, psoriasis, eczema, nightmares etc.
 
This method is the least prejudiced approach I have ever encountered in homoeopathic prescribing. It allows the patient to express themselves in the most intimate and indiviual way without encouraging them to express particular well known rubrics or remedy states.
David Kempson
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  Quote Brisbanehomoeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov. 09 at 16:56

The Heart of Case Taking ( ref: Rajan Sankaran, “Spirit of Homoeopathy”)

 

The purpose of case taking is

¬     to trace the picture of the disease

¬     to note the individualizing features of the patient

¬     to understand the patient’s true feelings

¬     to perceive and record the inner experience

¬     to identify the central disturbance

 

Factors which obscure the Central Disturbance

1. the situation of the patient

2. pathology

 

Striking symptoms will catch your attention immediately.

 

Socio-cultural traits are like disguises that mask the real person.

Must remove symptoms that are explainable by his situation - what symptoms would be found even if he were from a totally different background? What symptoms would have persisted even if he had travelled a totally different path?

 

Basic traits do not belong to any particular group of people.

 

Must reduce expressions to the basic feelings that cause them.

 

How do you determine if the symptom is “original”?

1.      Has the symptom existed prior to the situation or pathology? (go back to childhood)

2.      Compare intensity with other patients with the same situation

3.      Ask which aspects of his situation he is comfortable with. Those he is most comfortable with are in tune with his true nature. Ask what situations he would be comfortable in.

 

Remember: We do not discard a remedy if the symptoms of the remedy are not found in the patient - we only discard a remedy if the symptoms of the patient  are not found in the remedy.

 

Ask about the following parts of a person’s life.

1.      Where they came from

2.      Who his parents were

3.      Occupation

4.      Story of his life

5.      Education

6.      Marriage

7.      Money matters

8.      Interests

 

Let the symptoms be heavily exposed before you accept them. Attack the idea - be very sceptical - confirm it in other situations and be very sure before you lean on it for support.

 

Hints on Case-taking (Rajan Sankaran)

 

F     Ask questions in the opposite direction. Ask a coward when did he stand up for himself.

F     Always confirm symptoms from relatives and friends.

F     Never accept what the patient says at face value.

F     Look at the hidden expression behind the symptoms.

F     Symptoms expressed with spontaneity, clarity and intensity are of the highest value. Answers that go beyond the direct response to questions.

F     If a patient is markedly irresolute, this will be best elicited when you ask about cravings and aversions.

F     Try to confirm the essential parameters of the patient in diverse situations of his life. Ask about all the possible situations where this could become evident.

F     Try as much as possible to avoid asking the patient directly about his nature.

F     If you cannot elicit characteristic symptoms in the patient’s present state, you have to go back to a time when the last characteristics existed. Look at 1. Time after a stressful situation 2. Illness before medication 3. Patient in childhood

F     Provoke a patient by making him wait beyond his time of appointment.

F     Avoid asking another question as soon as the patient stops talking. He may modify or change his answer upon being given time to think.

F     The patient must feel you care to open up.

F     What the patient asks you is more important than what you ask him.

F     If you come to a dead end, ask the patient to describe one typical day in his life.

 

Techniques of Case-taking (Rajan Sankaran)

 

1.      Observation - put your observation back on the patient and ask if he is experiencing it.

2.      Look at the mode of narration of the complaint - casual remarks, the way they approach the practitioner, the way they speak.

3.      Accompaniments to the suffering - state of mind during the pain is uncompensated.

4.      Interests or hobbies - anything the patient does to feel good or fantasizes about.

5.      Nature as a child.

6.      Typical behaviour - the things they do that characterize them.

7.      Reactions in life situations - how they reacted during and after stress and shock.

8.      Dreams.

9.      State of the mind of the mother during pregnancy.

10.  Intense real and extreme situations faced in their life.

11.  What feeling does the patient create in you - what do you involuntarily tell them at the end of the interview.

12.  What qualities in others and themselves can they not tolerate? What can they not understand in others? What are they angry about in themselves?

13.   What does the physical state indicate - violence, stubbornness, restlessness?

14.   Occupation and area of work - why he chose it, how does he function, what branch of that work has he chosen

15.   In relationships, what is the nature of their partners?

16.   The situations they have created in life - they will attempt to recreate a situation similar to the one in his imagination he has already reacted to.

17.   Interview friends and relatives.

 

 

 

Selection of the Remedy (Rajan Sankaran)

 

Ø      Observe everything about the patient

Ø      Depend on uncompensated features

Ø      Form a general impression first

Ø      Go from generals to specifics

Ø      Keep trying to prove yourself wrong

Ø      Examine the person’s situations in life and how he views them

Ø      Where do they face restrictions or blocks?

Ø      What situation does he imagine himself to be in?

Ø      Most important symptoms are the ones nearest to his basic feelings

 

David Kempson
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Piyush Kumar View Drop Down
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  Quote Piyush Kumar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov. 09 at 05:55

David

its just so brilliant....i know how much spirit work and insight is neede to arrive or bulld a method..
But still when the patient comes to us with all kind of cases...a person suuffering from acute fever ,or dyspnoea or retention of urine...or female with menorrhagia...
 
i am not against anybody..but still i feel we need to disscuss bit more regarding this issue as its so important and  vital...
 
i confess i face difficulties in my practice..and i want to reduce my errors...for sure..
 
Dr Piyush
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  Quote scarface Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov. 09 at 06:58

Homeopathy is still missing a lot of knowledge to make it easier to find the right remedy. There is a known relationship between the psihical cause and the remedy needed.
In order to recognize the cause of the sickness, and by that also the remedy, is good to
know that the organs affected by the sickness are directly dependent to the cause.

By knowing i.e. that the knees or the shoulder are affected we can find the psihical cause if we know the connecttion between part/organ affected and cause and thus we can narrow the remedy.

What Sankaran does is exactly the same. He figured out the real cause of the problem.
He found by observation the connection between remedy and cause, which is great thing.

But, I doubt yet from my own observations,  that all his rules are appliable to people from western countries. Because there is a big differences between people from such contries and india. People in west have different dreams, different habits, different sicknesses, different way of coping with problems. You will barely see face warts in western Europe...

I found some helpfull books to do the connection between sick organ/part and the cause which created them:

DIME QUE TE DUELE Y TE DIRE POR QUE
Tell Me What Hurts and I’ll Tell You Why  Author / Autor Odoul, Michel

There are also some books by Rudiger Dahlke in german.

If anyone knows some other books or infos which translates the organ affected to a psihical cause, I would like to hear more.

Another thing to narrow down the cause are the vices/virtutes of somebody, this brings one also to the cause of the problem.

It is easy to notice that:

Kids who do not obey get rather problems with the ears. As Odoul says the side precise if the problems are with the mother or with the father. I found this to be true.

Kids who are angry get problems with the throat 

Kids whos mothers dont show enough body affection (caress, kisses) get skins problems (sulfur!, I found this in my second case of sulfur by observation because I knew the mother ). 

People who cannot see anymore a certain situation get problems with the eyes ( I found this in many patients. The right remedy is to solve the cause of it. In one case that meant to heal the son who was the cause and not only the patient. 

So what Sankaran tells us is : FIND the real cause of the problem, don't hunt for simptoms just to put them in the computer.

There are different ways to do that though. Sometimes the tongue alone shows more than
all simptoms together. Did anyone met a "snake" splitted tongue so far  ?

Any affected organ tells something important and essential about the cause.

Homeopathy missed yet to categorize and analyze that. It would be great if someone could gather all this informations from all over the world - specially from the experience of homeopaths - and put them together in a new and usable form.




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  Quote N Madhavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov. 09 at 09:35
Originally posted by Brisbanehomoeopath

Those 'taints' (referring to several of the new miasms) do in fact affect every system of the body. The patterns associated with these illnesses (leprosy, malaria, typhoid) can appear in mulitple family members.

Let me share with you some scientific research about Leprosy....

"Two McGill scientists are leading an international research team that announced a breakthrough last week: they have isolated a section of a human chromosome that makes people vulnerable to leprosy.

"Medicine and human genetics professor Erwin Schurr and human genetics professor Tom Hudson were two of the co-authors of a research paper announcing the discovery in the March issue of the journal Nature Genetics. The announcement has already stirred considerable interest, for a problem that Canadians may think is relegated to the past.

"That depends on where you live," said Schurr, a genetics researcher at the McGill University Health Centre. "On a global scale, there are 500,000 to 700,000 new cases each year. These cases are not equally distributed around the world; there are a few high incidence countries that account for the vast majority of cases."

Schurr led a team that went to some of those countries to collect DNA samples from members of affected families. The most afflicted countries are India and Brazil; some African, Asian and South American nations also have new cases every year.

The disease is very rare in Europe and North America and most of the developed world, and the number of cases in afflicted countries has gone down thanks to aggressive multi-drug chemotherapy. Symptoms of leprosy include skin lesions, permanent nerve damage leading to numbness of the feet and hands and, if left untreated, the disease may result in gross disfiguration including loss of finger, toes, feet and hands. The leprosy bacteria are transmitted through direct personal contact.

"Before the introduction of drug therapies 20 years ago, there were about 3 million new cases a year. So the caseload came down, but the question is why hasn't it gone away completely? We believe our discovery is an answer to that."

While the team has not yet identified the actual gene, they have narrowed down its location to a specific area on human chromosome 6.

"The gene predisposes people to becoming infected; it provides a friendly environment for the bacterium (Mycobacterium leprae, the known cause of the disease)."

Tom Hudson, director of the McGill University and Genome Quebec Innovation Centre, says that the gene is almost certainly a mutant version of a healthy gene carried by all humans. He says the significance of the breakthrough can be placed in the context of long-term and ongoing efforts to show a genetic component to infection.

"People at the McGill Centre for Host Resistance — Schurr, (Philippe) Gros, (Emil) Skamene and others — have been working for two decades to show that we get infectious disease not just because of bugs, but also because of genes that make us susceptible. The group has shown in the past that genes played this role in animals, but this is one of the first times that the genetic link has been shown in humans."

The research team for this study used state-of-the-art gene mapping techniques to look for a common thread between affected families."

So, you can see that in fact the susceptibility to Leprosy does in fact become passed down. Homoeopathy realised this before science did (again!)

And in regards to Malaria, let me share another interesting piece of science....

"An inherited childrens' blood disorder called alpha thalassemia can protect children against malaria, according to a new study.

"It is really remarkable and so simple. Children with alpha thalassemia have adapted to the loss of red blood cells associated with malarial disease by making more of these cells with less hemoglobin," says Dr. Day. "So, these children do better because they end up with more hemoglobin overall when they have a malaria attack compared to normal children," says Dr. Day.

Malaria afflicts hundreds of millions of people, causing up to 2 million deaths every year in Africa and Asia. Many of its victims are young children. In regions of the world where malaria is endemic, mutations have arisen in human populations that allow people to survive. Sickle cell trait, for example, protects against malaria.

So here we have an inherited genetic trait that has arisen as a result of Malaria in previous generations - which clearly fulfills your requirements for classifcation as a miasm.

Now typhoid is a little harder to clearly see this way as Leprosy and Malaria is. But I found this interesting article...

'A key to survival of Salmonella typhi is its ability to lie dormant in carriers, who show no symptoms but remain able to infect others,' says Kathryn Holt, a PhD student at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute and first author on the study. 'Our new tools will assist us in tracing the source of typhoid outbreaks, potentially even to infected carriers, allowing those individuals to be treated to prevent further spread of the disease.

'Using the genomic biology of this study, we can now type typhi, identify the strain that is causing infection, identify carriers and direct vaccination programmes most efficiently. It is a remarkable step forward.'

The study is a collaboration between researchers at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, University College, Cork, Institut Pasteur in Paris and Oxford University Clinical Research Unit, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. The team studied 19 isolates of typhi from ten countries, using new sequencing methods that meant they could capture the rare signals of genetic variation in this stubborn genome. They produced more than 1.7 billion letters of genetic sequence and found evidence of fewer than 2000 mutation events, suggesting very little evolution since the emergence of typhi at least 15,000 years ago.

Their analysis shows that the typhi genome is decaying - as it becomes more closely allied to us, its human host, it is losing genes that are superfluous to life in the human body. More importantly, genes that contain instructions for the proteins on the surface of the bacterium - those most often attacked by our immune system defences - vary much less than do the equivalent genes in most other bacteria, suggesting that typhi has a strategy to circumvent the selective pressures of our immune system."

So Typhoid has adapted to the human host exclusively, and it can sit dormant in a person, making them a carrier and allowing them to infect others. That is very similar to other illnesses that are associated with miasms (like Tuberculosis).

And this same article, suggests a similar reaction to Typhoid, as others have had to Malaria ...

"The gene mutation that causes cystic fibrosis also appears to protect against infection with typhoid fever bacteria, a study supported by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) has found. The finding could explain why an estimated 12 million people in the United States carry the gene for such a highly fatal childhood disease. Researchers led by Gerald Pier, Ph.D., of Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston, report the finding in the May 7, 1998, issue of the journal Nature."

So another genetic mutation, an inherited illness, that has a relationship with Typhoid. While not as clear as the Malaria link, it is certainly interesting.


This is not the first time these 'so-called breakthroughs' have been published only to be rubbished later by further research. Let them isolate the gene, then we will talk on this.

Regards
Niel
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  Quote Brisbanehomoeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 09 at 02:52

You want to wait for science to prove miasmatic theory through genetics? If that was the case then no-one could have used miasmatic theory for most of homoeopathic history. We don't need to wait for science to prove what we already know about miasms.

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  Quote N Madhavan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 09 at 06:40
You understood me wrong. I was commenting on your post about the genetic pre-disposition to leprosy.
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  Quote Piyush Kumar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 09 at 08:58

DAVID

a patient presents to me with the problem of fistula in ano....he was operated but it again recurred...can you sugget how should i approach this case and to remedy....n especially when there are lot of patient waiting for their turn....
Dr Piyush
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  Quote Brisbanehomoeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 09 at 17:56
I cannot give you good advice on that. The homoeopathic method demands time, attention to detail - I guess I would not attempt it if someone only gave me 5-10 minutes of their time. Perhaps in true acutes quick prescriptions could be made, but not for chronic cases.
 
I have heard this problem before from other homoeopathic doctors working in busy practices. Those homoeopaths who felt strongly enough about practicing more homoeopathically reduced the number of clients they saw (as I have done although I was never as busy as an orthodox doctor). It is certainly a difficult issue and not one that I feel qualified to offer any advice on.
 
Perhaps a busy doctor here could offer you their insight into how they might have adopted Vital Sensation method to a practice that has a high turnover of clients each day?
 
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  Quote Piyush Kumar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov. 09 at 22:21
perhaps with method you work you cannot prescribe fast enough......
 
ORGANON teach us not to adopt one strategy for all cases...
HAHNEMANN used to see avg 60 patients per day in PARIS ref Life & work of HAHNEMANN by Richard Haehl
 
Plz again dont interpret that i am condemning the method but we should adopt always and adapt the methods of ORGANON so that we can increase the efficiency and scope of our work.
 
 
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